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Willtell 9:49 Thu Feb 5
Re: The official "in BFS we trust" thread.

The Kronic 1:49 Wed Feb 4
"Willtell 1:06
Behave you fucking clown, I'd have bitten his face off after Liverpool given half the chance. You're a proper flip flopping cunt when it comes to the fat cunt aren't you?"

Well it's easy to say you'd have bitten SA's face off but he is a big bloke and I'd like to see it when you do...

My attitude is probably confusing on a forum but to clarify - I don't like the man as a WH manager. I don't like his usual brand of football. I don't think he will ever be a good fit at WH.

However, he has done all that was asked of him. He got promotion by the skin of his teeth but he did it. He has kept us in the Premier League for two seasons and he changed to an attacking formation that surprised us all. Trying to fit Nolan and Carroll in has derailed the progress but circumstances seem to be conspiring to correct that for him.

Sacking managers rarely improves matters but SA's contract is up for renewal in a few months. WH shouldn't renew it unless he shows in the next few weeks that he can guide the team back to being a side capable of beating any team with quick attacking football.

If SA does that and we end up in 6th or 7th place why would we not want to keep him for another 2 seasons?

Billy Blagg 9:35 Thu Feb 5
Re: The official "in BFS we trust" thread.

Alex V 4:32 Thu Feb 5
Good point Alex but it goes even deeper than that when you filter in how the players the manager buys perform.

'Who on here really thought 'Sakho! - he's a player who will do what Maiga can't' Truth is I bet Sam's as surprised at what Diafa has done about as equally as he is perplexed as to what Modibo hasn't. In any logical scouting report surely Maiga would have been the better purchase.

Have you noticed at how all the press and pundits just talk about Carroll's form and fitness? I doubt there's a professional football-related coach, player, manager who wouldn't put AC first in a roster of 3 or 4 involving who is currently at the club.

Of course tactics are vital but you still need the players to perform within that structure

Justin R 9:18 Thu Feb 5
Re: The official "in BFS we trust" thread.

I have to say, that after the last couple of decades of regular Champions League football, all the trophies and glory we have enjoyed, and the glamorous swaggering football we always played, Sam Allardyce has been nothing short of a disaster for this club, I mean who would have expected safety by Christmas and a decent cup run? How about those humiliations against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge and Liverpool at Anfield? How many years is it since we lost to either of those no hopers?

Oh.

j.a 9:16 Thu Feb 5
Re: The official "in BFS we trust" thread.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the performances dropped, and most notably, the quality of football dropped when Carroll returned.

I remember we still got some good results for a period, and there were lengthy discussions on here about the quality of football not being as good.But generally, we ground out results. Whereas before hand, we looked like a completely different team and were lauded by many for our football.

It even took a while for the media to catch on that we were now playing a more bustling, predictable game with Carroll's return. We were still being credited as playing great football even though we weren't anymore.

ironsofcanada 8:56 Thu Feb 5
Re: The official "in BFS we trust" thread.

After8 8:17 Thu Feb 5
"Irons why have been poor since the Leicester match?"

Bad decision by the manager, poor performances by some players, absences, probably in that order. But my point in the last few post is made by that question. Leicester was over a month and half after Sakho and Valencia started together. In other words we played well, without them starting, in similar way to when they did.

"You were on here defending the chelsea performance saying Sam knew what he was doing and was resting players."

Is that a question? If it is a statement, I don't remember saying anything of the sort. During Christmas and the weeks after I didn't post much of anything at all.

"Why have we since the chelsea game been a steaming pile of crap then?"

We have been poor lately, and it has a lot do with picking Nolan but don't be so puerilely over dramatic. We won 3-0, two league games ago and ground out a good cup win against a decent side and finished off a lower league one, which we often don't do. Get a bit of mature grip.

ironsofcanada 8:43 Thu Feb 5
Re: The official "in BFS we trust" thread.

Alex V 4:32 Thu Feb 5

Actually a very sensible post.

Last sentence especially. That is what Sakho and Valencia playing together has become for some people. Everything was working then from Adrian through the defense, the wing backs, especially the midfield and then Sakho and Valencia working really hard from the front. We were still scoring from headers and crosses and set pieces, just doing it more regularly.

Why not automatically go back to it? The personnel have not been available first and foremost but Valencia especially has not looked as good, same with Song, Kayoute has not been there and when he has it has been similar. But also there is another team on the pitch that actually don't want us playing our best as well.

Does that excuse some the decisions - no.

terry-h 8:31 Thu Feb 5
Re: The official "in BFS we trust" thread.

Sam's master plan?
Sounds exciting.

Private Dancer 8:30 Thu Feb 5
Re: The official "in BFS we trust" thread.

''you know the one we lost but we had people on here claiming it was all part of Sams master plan''


To be fair, there were some actually saying that. Woops.

Mr Polite 8:24 Thu Feb 5
Re: The official "in BFS we trust" thread.

People who support Sam are part of the problem.

After8 8:19 Thu Feb 5
Re: The official "in BFS we trust" thread.

We weren't mid table before the chelsea game Capitol, you know the one we lost but we had people on here claiming it was all part of Sams master plan.

We've been shit for six weeks.

Why is that?

After8 8:17 Thu Feb 5
Re: The official "in BFS we trust" thread.

Irons why have been poor since the Leicester match?

You were on here defending the chelsea performance saying Sam knew what he was doing and was resting players.

Why have we since the chelsea game been a steaming pile of crap then?

ironsofcanada 8:07 Thu Feb 5
Re: The official "in BFS we trust" thread.

ajc123 2:49 Thu Feb 5

"The slant is on your side as Allardyce can do no wrong."

It is? It is clearly not if you actually read my posts. (But you would not alter something to try and make you point, right?)

If you want to pick and choose a couple of games to judge people on you could say Sakho and Valencia had a poor results in their draws at Hull or at home to Villa and even losing to a, at the time shambolic, Man U team.

But I have never said that, I think they generally played very good football, just like I think that we played good football and got results when Carroll has played at times. Especially when Downing has been behind him and/or he has got a chance to play with Sakho.

Why those things have not happened more, I don't know and in my humble, not worth anything (like the rest of everyone's on here) opinion, those decisions would be wrong.

Alex V 4:32 Thu Feb 5
Re: The official "in BFS we trust" thread.

It's very hard to pick through results and pin them on certain personnel. I thought we played some of our most exciting stuff with Sakho and Valencia, but it wasn't just them, and they weren't great the whole time (the first halves at Hull and Burnley were poor). In the same way I don't like pinning a more indifferent run of form post-Christmas on Nolan and Carroll, because I think it had more to do with tougher fixtures and general dips in form than necessarily just their presence.

Downing, for example, I think has dipped after his exceptional form in Sept/Oct (though he's still doing fine). I don't think you can say it's all to do with playing wide or through the middle - I just think it's more likely that he outperformed for a while and has now averaged out a bit more (regression to the mean). When Song first joined he looked completely unbelievable, and while I think he's still the best player at the club he isn't the sensation he was at first - it's predictable really. I think that early form was a bit of a false dawn, basically, and would be really very hard to recreate (not that we shouldn't try).

I don't think Allardyce has had a huge amount of choice, and the choices he has made are fairly typical of what he's always done. If you didn't like his style before (and I didn't) then you're never going to like him. But I'm just not sure that there's a magical solution to find with these players if he would only pick a certain eleven on the pitch - that seems a little naive as an argument to me.

ajc123 2:49 Thu Feb 5
Re: The official "in BFS we trust" thread.

Againsg who ioc? Those results also included playing the good players but they still don't compare to beatin Liverpool and Man City. They showed the potential. It's currently being wasted. Tactics are to blame and thaf sits with the manager. The slant is on your side as Allardyce can do no wrong.
My problem with him is I don't think he knows when it was right. The end of the season will tell. At the moment we're easy to read, play against and beat for all the clubs above us.

Hugh Monteith 2:20 Thu Feb 5
Re: The official "in BFS we trust" thread.

sam sam pick oop thy musket and leave by the door

ironsofcanada 1:09 Thu Feb 5
Re: The official "in BFS we trust" thread.

ajc123 12:16 Thu Feb 5

"After that we revert to his favourite one dimensional shit but still get a couple of good results then hit the buffers with Chelsea."

To me that is great example of slanting things the way one want to see them.

I was, first, still very excited by the football and your "couple of good results" was being unbeaten in 5 leading up to the Chelsea game and getting as many wins as we did when Sakho and Valencia started together. A fairly radical interpretation of "a couple."

Stubbo 12:22 Thu Feb 5

I completely disagree about Sakho being better with Valencia as compared to Carroll. Carroll and Sakho have not got to play together a whole lot but Carroll has assisted more of Sakho goals than Valencia has and they have played some very nice looking football together. The second half of Swansea at home comes to mind and even the goal against Bristol City that got us in trouble with FIFA.

On Song that is a harder one to judge but I have seen Valencia waste a lot of nice Song passes through offsides or other moments of lack of awareness (like at least couple against Liverpool on Saturday.) Generally I think Song's troubles as of late have been his own and the result of Nolan being in the middle rather than a lack of Valencia.

Stubbo 12:22 Thu Feb 5
Re: The official "in BFS we trust" thread.

The reason Valencia should be preferred over Carroll is it brings better performances out of Song and Sakho who are crucial to our success.

Those two play better with the more dynamic Valencia up front. Individually I agree Carroll brings more, but he also changes the team dynamic significantly and for that reason the Sakho-Valencia pairing should be preferred.

ajc123 12:16 Thu Feb 5
Re: The official "in BFS we trust" thread.

The best results were in October with no sniff of Nolan and Carroll. Earlier than that FS was persisting with Vaz Te and Cole. After that we revert to his favourite one dimensional shit but still get a couple of good results then hit the buffers with Chelsea. I'm happy to wait til the end of the season but you can see from his selection that he messed around with swapping Amalfitano for S or V.
Personally though I think the October results were a surprise to him and after that he wanted to break up the momentum. I'd be surprised if we do anything for the rest of the season. Those who think he will are ignoring his history. As I say happy to be proved wrong but you have to stick to the proof of his record.

Romfordboy 8:10 Wed Feb 4
Re: The official "in BFS we trust" thread.

I have no problem with Carroll

I prefer him as the number 10 though instead of this number 9 rubbish with downing and Valencia on the wing

ironsofcanada 8:07 Wed Feb 4
Re: The official "in BFS we trust" thread.

Generally
Not sure anyone is arguing the Nolan thing at the moment.

He was coming off the bench for two months after coming back, so it wasn't automatic, but I don't know what the manager saw in that period or the subsequent starts to warrant the current treatment.

Eerie Descent 6:32 Wed Feb 4

My point exactly. At the end of December Sakho and Valencia had not started together for almost 2 months, so to pretend like them playing together was be all and end of that success is seeing what you want to see. (They started 6 games together total) Andy Carroll had started regularly for almost two of those months as well so to pretend like he was not part of that success is again seeing what you want to see.

Not sure what you meant exactly by run of games in your previous post? I was comparing the best run of 5 games from each.

Finally anyone who can show me how Valencia has been better than Carroll over the last two months, statistically or other wise. I will listen. I don't see one is why Carroll rightly has continued to start.

ATBOG 7:27 Wed Feb 4
Re: The official "in BFS we trust" thread.

The pro walrus brigade can argue the toss all they like. If anyone can't see nolan & Carroll don't get favourable treatment from allardyce they're stupid. Both of them have got time on the pitch at every opportunity during their time here when they've been out for any reason & both have been allowed to play themselves back to form/match fitness at every opportunity. it doesn't rankle so much with Carroll at the moment as he's playing as well as he ever has but the current nolan situation is a fucking joke.

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